Hey PJ!

So, we've tried monetary penalties on teams that give up, but honestly, it just seems cruel to force teams that are mathematically eliminated from caring. If the NBA can't do it, I can't do it...

For #4, I love the idea of giving out draft order early. More prep time!

Dan,

We went a different monetary penalty approach where last 4 places pay additional funds. 25, 50, 75, 100% of buyin.

Has been well accepted since it gives people something to play for (if only bragging rights) to season end.

I definitely would not enjoy a league where the last place team gets penalized just for being in last.

Yeah, I think if we tried to enforce such a rule, we'd lose teams every year.

I think a monetary policy is needed to protect the integrity of the league. Especially in H2H. If no punitive policy is in place, then what do you do in a situation in the last few weeks of the regular season where the top 1-3 seeds are just a few games behind each other.

And if one of those top 3 teams plays a team who has given up and isn’t active on the waiver wire, or not setting up lineups. If I am one of the other top two teams and I am playing a team team that still cares and is managing their roster, then thats unfair to me. The top team that is playing a team that has given up will have an easy minimum 6-3 victory. Verses my team will not have the same advantage playing an opponent who is still trying. I would be very upset if it meant I would drop from one seed to second or third and potentially lose out on a first round bye or less money rewarded for a lower seed finish.

This has happened in my league, thus the punitive policy in place...

I am surprised if you guys are doing ultra competitive leagues that this issue has not come up or been a problem. Most competitive leagues and GMs spilt not tolerate a GM giving up or stop trying even if they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. It affects the integrity of the league...

The nature of the beast is that a few teams will give up, and it will impact almost everyone equally. And if the league is super bent about it, the commissioner can always just go in and click to set the eliminated team's roster for the week.

I always look ahead to see who my opponents will be playing and who I'm going to play against. If it looks like my road is easier, I can actually make moves based on that. I might stash an injured guy knowing I'm about to play a team that gave up. I might stream if I think my opponent is going to play the dead team. There are strategic ways to work around this issue without trying to squeeze extra money out of a team having a bad year.

The buy-in is the buy-in

Dan,

I beg to differ. It won’t affect everyone equally. As there are usually 20 weeks in a regular season, and in a 12 team league you won’t play the same opponent twice. And the opponent that has given up will have a lack of effort in the last few weeks. This puts an unfair advantage to teams playing the “given up” teams last few weeks. The “given up” team more than likely gave much more of an effort first half of the season when they still had a chance at the playoffs.

Going the Route of commish taking over or setting roster for a “given up” team puts unnecessary work on the commish. Also allows for much ambiguity from the commish on how he manages the roster. This has the potential to cause a lot of uproar in the league if the commish isn’t managing the roster with appropriate waiver wire pickups. Also allows for a conflict of interest as the commish has a team in the league and is unlikely to add players to a given up team, players that could benefit the commish s own team.

I feel a GM has the obligation to keep trying till the very end, even if they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. If this obligation is in question, then a punitive monetary policy should be in place to motivate them to keep trying.

I would bet most of what I have in my wallet (which, mind you, isn't much) that at some point, you will have teams leave the league because of that rule. It's just inevitable.

Also, another good reason for Roto

Haha. Man I would be so for roto but I tried it once and it’s so boring compared to the excitement of Head to head and playoffs.

In our league we haven’t had anyone leave because of the punitive policy, but everyone pretty much understand that if you can’t handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen! ?

I'll taking boring and not subject to weird silly season luck any day of the week, baby!

So let me give my 2 cents here

I play a really competitive league, 12 teams, points, h2h(really crazy system that we are constantly changing to make it better) and those discussions arrive everytime

We thought about it a lot, and monetary punishment seems way too harsh. But yeah, no punishment also seems way too nice, especially when it can hinder the competition. Our plan so far relies on punishment for next season's draft. If we change to auction, probably would be something like the last player loses 4 dolars, 11th player loses 3 dolars and so on. For draft, would be a protection swap system. For example, if you finished last in 2019, in 2020 the top 5 teams can swap their pick with you. If you finished 11th, top 3 teams only that are allowed to swap. Something like this. It is not something that makes the last place quit, but it is fair enough for you to not care and play the last rounds even if you are eliminated.

That's not a bad idea, Brenno. I still think nailing someone for being dead last is a rough move.

I think punishment should only be distributed if a person can't even just click the 'set lineup' button once a week. If someone is trying and just has a bad team, that seems punishment enough.

If the last place person isn't setting their lineups the punishment should be to boot them out of the league as a deterring factor. Making the last place team pay a penalty regardless of whether or not they're setting their lineups seems a bit much to me.

If the penalty were only in existence in the event they don't set their lineups I could maybe agree to the idea, but not a penalty for last place just because they lost.

Just to chime in real quick. I completely understand what you are saying about owners giving up and how much it sucks. The bottom line is that the teams that end up at the bottom will absolutely quit if you try to levy a fine. You will have constant turn at the bottom. I have seen it first hand.